This is just my opinion (and no... i am not done with Volumio....yet)

I have been using Volumio for some time now and i liked it untill… i found Moodeaudio. Since the Volumio 3.x update i need an (free) account to get to the plugin section. For me autostart is an option that’s a must. Whats the point in using Volumio if it will not auto start playing when activated? An equalizer would be nice also. None of them are available in the latest version!!! Now i did post a question earlier about Volumio and privacy (no response). I noted that Volumio connects to a lot of servers and wondered why this was. Beside that, it produces a lot of traffic you might not want. Do i need a (free) account so the data that’s being collected can be linked to this account (= me)? I always get itchy with these constructions. So why switch? Well… for one, MoodeAudio runs, out of the box, on a RasPi Zero 2W. It has default autostart (with clock-alarm function), build in equalizers (3), spottify, airplay and so on. All options i need to get a Volumio plugin for that is often not (yet) available. But configuring MoodeAudio is less ergonomic, you need to read the quick-start guide but after that its about the same. I did notice that MoodeAudio does not make any connection to any server other than the stream you connect to. Does this mean i am done with Volumio? Probably not, i really liked the interface but first i want to investigate what traffic Volumio is sending to all these servers. I am in Europe so sending data without informing the user about this data or give the opportunity to opt-out is not legal under current law but there might be a privacy statement somewhere on the site? So… if your struggling with multi-room play, autostart, equalizers, spotify, running Volumio on a RasPi Zero2W you might want to consider testing Moode?

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You are right about GDPR but I think the question is asked during the setup and then there is a Privacy option where you can opt-out. Links to the Terms&Condition and Privacy Policy are on the website (in the footer, was quick to find).

Data collection is the first item there

(in system settings)

MoodeAudio looks like an interesting project, thanks for sharing

I tried providing a start today in your previous post - Volumio and privacy.

I agree this information should be explained better, and available in an easy to reach place.

This is a good start – but I think having a Telemetrics/UI stats Opt-in/out the first start wizard would be the most transparent way forward.
For example, there is no current way to disable calls to a rather ominous sounding http://updates.volumio.org/downloader-v1/track-device

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

I think the best reply to all the concerns about data and privacy is full transparency. So I prepared the most comprehensive explanation I could, which will be dynamically updated and will serve as centralized point of discussion for that matters:

Then, regarding your complaints you have, I think what you are seeing are 2 products which have the same goal, but two different approaches.

I can only speak for our approach, and provide you an answer on that.

Not all the plugins have been ported to Volumio 3

This is because we want to step up in plugins quality. In the past year we observed too many times that poorly written plugins were breaking Volumio, resulting in a bad experience.

We designed plugins to be flexible, but this resulted in poor care in making them resilient.

So we decided to validate each one of them and define new guidelines for safety and code quality for each of them.

Believe me, this will take time (and we are slower than we want on this) but it’s definetely worth.

This is because we value usability and stability a lot. We also care that non computer savvy users can benefit from an high quality player like Volumio.
Doing something easy to use, where you have sane defaults without too many overwhelming choices is harder, and takes more time.

Thanks for your feedback and hope this explaination will provide more insigths.

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Hi, I was puzzled by your post for a few reasons.

i) there is a powerful and free EQ available. Search for the FusionDSP plugin.
ii) you mentioned that you want auto-start. What does that really mean? What should it play when it starts? Should it repeat the last album played, for example? To me this seems like a non-problem given how easy it is to play something.
iii) GDPR applies to any personally identifying data, not all data. And most likely you consented to any data transfer of personal information that may or may not be taking place. Again, seems like a non-issue.
iv) For what it’s worth, I migrated from Moode after some problems and never looked back :slight_smile:

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An on this part there are even 2 plugins, waiting for validation:

  • autostart
  • auto_play

I’m not a GDPR expert but believe that it applies to all data, the idea is to inform users and allow them to opt-out of all or some. With identifiable data, people can ask for it or ask for it to be deleted (doesn’t apply to anonymised data).

I think that would be required under GDPR, again might be wrong.

I feel like it’s about being in tune with the community. I would imagine people come to projects like Volumio because they want more control (or a cheap way to stream audio!) I mean @volumio post is pretty cool tbh. It shows that they know their audience. It’s important to explain to users why you’re collecting the data and what will be done with it. (I’m telling clients this every day).

At the same time, we’re talking about something quite niche here, we’re not on Facebook here, can’t imagine Volumio has the power or resource to do anything manipulative with the data (probably don’t even have time to improve UX with it). Maybe in 5 years when Spotify or Denon buys them :joy:

:clap: I like that @volumio has a vision and wants better standards, makes me want to stay and see what’s coming. Vision is everything, that’s what makes a side project into a real product. But again, that’s not for everyone, some people rather crack open the terminal every time they want to turn the volume up and tinker with something rawer. I love coding and playing with electronics but also love listening to music without having to think about how to listen to it, so Volumio works for me (not that anyone cares)

But Spotify Connect does not work on MoodeAudio.
Air is OK, DLNA OK so why Spotify not (my Spotify account is Premium).
No such problem with Volumio.

Sp

In big lines:
GDPR applies to all data, that can be linked to person information which identify you as a person. If this is the case they have a legal commitment to inform you upon collection (hence the check box when you create an account).
So if Volumio collects everything you do on your copy, by most likely the Device Unique Identification Code, is ok. However if there is a registration between this code and your personal information (That can identify you as person), GDPR steps in.

  • Data may only be accessed in order for their system/servers to keep running. If this is done by an external party, there need to be a signed agreement between Volumio and this 3rd party. They are even allowed to share the personal details if there is a signed agreement. (but you don’t need personal information for statistics so there should be no link, but you do need them for some functions) Every 3rd party has the same restrictions on this data as stated in this agreement.
  • Financial purpose
  • Sent news bulletins, if you opt for them during the registration
  • Provide their full clarification on what they do with this information/shared with/… (mandatory checkbox during registration

However:

  • If you decide that you don’t want this data collected anymore, they have to remove every record that link to you (personal data). If they kill the link it’s ok.
  • This can also mean that posting in this forum must be deleted, if there is a link between forum name and personal data, or replace it with a dummy forum name and delete the link

Downside of these action might be that Volumio won’t operate anymore.

Collection of this data also works in our advantage. As example, they can use it to reduce the stress on their servers getting album details. They could use the top 1000 requests and cache them.

Your welcome to install the Connect daemon I wrote for Volumio on Moode… :wink:

They probably have consulted lawyers…
I’d reckon the reasons for not having some thing like that is just developer priorities and finite resources of the guys working at Volumio…

Thank you - I will try.

volumio (still on 2, but I expect 3 is similar) connects to the following services:

firebase is a google nosql database, google and apis.google you would expect to see also.

paddle.com is a payment service (presumably for upgrading your myvolumio subscription).

hope this helps!

So does Volumio 3. I have it running on a Pi Zero 2W right next to me on my desk. Install and setup were easy and painless - same as the old Zero.
I’m also using Fusion DSP for Parametric Equalization which works perfectly, no issues. Sorry you had a bad experience.

Who cares about a zero2 or just PI in general?
I can get Volumio 3 on a whole range of other platforms, incl. x86.
That makes a difference for me.
Mood Audio? Sorry not in the mood.

For me, I wanted an open source, linux-based system I could tweak that supported MQA playback while being able to support simultaneous streaming to Chromecast devices. I also want to eventually support moving music from room to room as I move about the house.

Volumio looked good, but then I had a ton of weird issues. I found out that these were due to volumio not liking my USB DAC being turned off. This is odd since linux supports hot plugging devices just fine. Support was zero help. I then found out this has been a known issue for years! Yet, support didnt even seem to know about it! Well, I patched it myself and sent the changes, but now I had upgrade problems since I had changed system files. The UI was horrible and IMHO broken, and Chromecast support seemed like something many people wanted and struggled trying to implement, but hadn’t gotten a plugin written. Using a local UI on my TV only half worked and I my multimedia remote wasnt supported.

Enter volumio 3 and promises to make all of this work. What I got was more bugs, the now workable UI was restricted to paying customers (I was but only 1 device at a time unless I paid double, and I had just built a portable). I had to constantly fiddle with things and checking my account meant my portable couldnt use paying features when not connected to the internet. Plugins dwindled and now needed an account for them too. The new UI failed with the DSP/EQ plugin. And once again, support wouldn’t even respond. No word of when the features I wanted might appear.

So, now I got picoreplayer. Yeah its a bit more to set up, but it has so many great features. It starts playing immediately, it can generate random playlists based on my listening habits and play them when my current playlist ends. Tidal works. Youtube Music streaming works. Local playback. Dlna/Upnp. Playback on Chromecasts. Moving playlists between devices. UI is great, on both web, android app, and on my TV! And my remote works fine. I even found a plugin to sync the volume of my Denon so that I can change volume (I use an MQA DAC so volume changes must be done after the DAC and changing volume via picoreplayer UI changes volume on my Denon AVR!)

My portable now has a cool dynamic EQ that adjusts settings to volume changes and I wrote a little tool to hotplug USB audio devices (they had a similar problem as volumio, but my fix doesnt stop other things from working) So … Support isnt much better, but at least I’m not paying for it! Everything I wanted all set and ready to go, rather than promises of “in the future”. I can even use the interface for the living room running on the TV to control the portable! Its amazingly flexible!

So. Deleting my account! This is the end!
uudruid74@gmail.com

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I wanted a system that would allow me to play great quality music from a wide variety of sources (Network drive, Soundcloud, YouTube, Bandcamp. Spotify, radio from around the world). I wanted a fast, modern interface, to be able to control multiple systems around the house. I wanted it to run on low cost hardware. I wanted it to be a living growing system with an engaged community and developers who were constantly trying to make my listening experience better.
That’s why I chose Volumio, and that’s why I’d recommend it to anyone who loves music and doesn’t expect it to do all the things it doesn’t.
V3, manifest, the plugin community. I couldn’t be happier, but I know improvements I haven’t yet thought of are around the corner.

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I was wishing for a microwave that I could also use as sailing boot. Ended up with a ballpoint :flushed:

Or better, I wanted a place to troll but, my mother took away my social media account. Luckily I found a forum…

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Sadly my time with Volumio seems to have drawn to an end, it’s been a blast and thanks for everything but I’m tired of updating only to find that what worked before no longer does or in the case of all those plugins no longer exists.
The comment about Moode audio made me check it out for the first time in years and it works. With gpio button controls built in and fast library update on my 2tb of flacs. I can even now also use squeezelite again. So, that’ll do for me.
And I’m not going to be spending £50 a year which for me is a lot.

No hard feelings though Volumio got me into using an RPi for my home audio. I’ll always be grateful for that. And it absolutely is still the best looking player. It turns out that looks for me just aren’t everything.

you mentioned that you want auto-start. What does that really mean? What should it play when it starts? Should it repeat the last album played, for example? To me this seems like a non-problem given how easy it is to play something.

Agree, I don’t think this is an issue or a ‘feature’ many people would want. I can’t recall any other media players that start straight away upon launch (even a cd player you have to hit play after turning it on/loading a disc. it seems to remember the last thing played like when you launch tidal etc. That’s handy enough but usually wont feel like listening to that again straight away.